SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Page 8 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by bayman on Thu May 03, 2018 9:49 pm

does anyone know the ''Port Natives'' story ?
avatar
bayman

Join date : 2012-02-05
Posts : 7217
Location : on a marx brothers set
Teams : plympton, glenelg, redbacks & whoever the money is on
My club : glenelg

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by bayman on Tue May 15, 2018 11:19 pm

bayman wrote:does anyone know the ''Port Natives'' story ?

Obviously no one knows the story
avatar
bayman

Join date : 2012-02-05
Posts : 7217
Location : on a marx brothers set
Teams : plympton, glenelg, redbacks & whoever the money is on
My club : glenelg

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by rocket_rooster on Wed May 16, 2018 6:01 am

bayman wrote:
bayman wrote:does anyone know the ''Port Natives'' story ?

Obviously no one knows the story

The following is from the official Woodville West Torrens website.

The West Torrens Club, as the fans knew it, had its beginnings from a group of players known as the Port Natives. This was a splinter group of dissatisfied members of the Port Adelaide Football Club, who, in 1894, broke from that Club when unable to get games with Port, and formed their own team known as the Port Natives. This Club was accepted into the Adelaide and Suburban Association and won two Premierships in a row. The success was cut short when the Adelaide and Suburban competition went into a recess. The Port Natives, at their Annual meeting in March 1896, renamed themselves simply “Natives” and were accepted into to South Australian Football Association for that season.
The Natives Club first secretary was John Carr, a member of the Legislative Council and the colours that the Club adopted were Blue and Gold.
G Rimes was the Captain of the team and they finished in fourth position out of five teams. Ironically the team finishing last in that year was Port Adelaide.
With the introduction of district football in 1897, the Club changed its name to West Torrens as it realised that a major number of its players resided in that area. Thus was born the West Torrens Football Club.
avatar
rocket_rooster

Join date : 2016-04-03
Posts : 263

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by bayman on Wed May 16, 2018 7:27 am

Thanks rr, now I know
avatar
bayman

Join date : 2012-02-05
Posts : 7217
Location : on a marx brothers set
Teams : plympton, glenelg, redbacks & whoever the money is on
My club : glenelg

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by mickyj on Wed May 16, 2018 8:13 am

rocket_rooster wrote:
bayman wrote:
bayman wrote:does anyone know the ''Port Natives'' story ?

Obviously no one knows the story

The following is from the official Woodville West Torrens website.

The West Torrens Club, as the fans knew it, had its beginnings from a group of players known as the Port Natives.  This was a splinter group of dissatisfied members of the Port Adelaide Football Club, who, in 1894, broke from that Club when unable to get games with Port, and formed their own team known as the Port Natives.  This Club was accepted into the Adelaide and Suburban Association and won two Premierships in a row.  The success was cut short when the Adelaide and Suburban competition went into a recess.  The Port Natives, at their Annual meeting in March 1896, renamed themselves simply “Natives” and were accepted into to South Australian Football Association for that season.
The Natives Club first secretary was John Carr, a member of the Legislative Council and the colours that the Club adopted were Blue and Gold.
G Rimes was the Captain of the team and they finished in fourth position out of five teams. Ironically the team finishing last in that year was Port Adelaide.
With the introduction of district football in 1897, the Club changed its name to West Torrens as it realised that a major number of its players resided in that area.  Thus was born the West Torrens Football Club.

I missed this post busy being a school Boy again lol.
I knew about Port Natives
At some stage either all those five teams or some played at Alberton oval
I'm not sure if Port Natives or Natives or west Torrens moved to Hindmarsh oval .
At some time the club did .
Could it be said the wheel has come full circle or almost Alberton Oval while Port Adelaide's Home oval is now in fact in the Woodville West Torrens Zone.
avatar
mickyj

Join date : 2012-02-21
Posts : 2019
My club : eagles

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by Scrappy on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:01 pm

This is versions of events  from that fine book BEST FROM BOTH WORLDS
A book with co authors Peter Cornwell and David Burtenshaw
A brilliant read

1890s
Alberton football club had an affiliation with Port Adelaide
Alberton players had disputes with PA over selection criterias
Alberton joined the Adelaide and Suburban football league as Port Natives
In 1895 they applied and were approved to join the SAFA as Natives
1895 Natives finished last
1896 Natives finished 4th in a 5 team comp, ironically PA finished last !
1897 Electorate football zones established , Natives became West Torrens in order to gain more focus in the local community

The book also mentions
That West Torrens first training area was a tan tack in the yard of land of the Land of Promise pub , and the players also trained on Port Road

I can add the following

The Natives metamorphisis
Alberton/Port Natives/Natives/West Torrens/Woodville West Torrens

Before their debut season Port Adelaide played  Natives in a trial match
5-7 PA
0-2 Natives
Adams scored the first ever goal for the Natives
I wonder if he was related to the Port Adelaide retrospective 1921 Magarey  Medal winner Charlie Adams ?
And what about the Natives guernseys, they were black and gold !

Natives first match in the SAFA 1895
7-8 Norwood
1-3 Natives

Natives first match against Port Adelaide 1895
8-6 PA
2-5 Natives
Been reported a BIG crowd attended

West Torrens played Port Adelaide 3 times in 1897
All 3 matches at Alberton

PA 15-14
WT 0-0

PA 9-18
WT 0-0

PA 19-12
WT 2-4

WT didnt score against PA until the 3rd encounter
WT finished 2nd last, WA won the spoon
WT won their first game ever against WA in rd 3

WT 3-10
WA 0-4

It looks like WT and Natives never beat PA in that century ???
In 1900 the old Alberton/Port Natives/Natives got their first ever win against Port Adelaide ?

PA  0-0...0-3...1-4...1-5
WT 2-1...2-2...2-4.. 2-4

Footnote
The version of events of the changes from  Alberton club to West Torrens club differs depending where you read
I went further , a search on Australiafootball.com  has Natives not Port Natives listed in 1895 +1896 in the SAFA

Also
Can anyone do a score_check  to confirm if Natives or West Torrens beat Port Adelaide in the 1890s ?
avatar
Scrappy

Join date : 2012-05-15
Posts : 3573

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by bayman on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:31 pm

You should have a budget from that game, I’m sure we were at that match
avatar
bayman

Join date : 2012-02-05
Posts : 7217
Location : on a marx brothers set
Teams : plympton, glenelg, redbacks & whoever the money is on
My club : glenelg

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by Scrappy on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:42 pm

You only went to the Natives games because the Natives wore black and gold guernseys
avatar
Scrappy

Join date : 2012-05-15
Posts : 3573

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by bayman on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:51 pm

True
avatar
bayman

Join date : 2012-02-05
Posts : 7217
Location : on a marx brothers set
Teams : plympton, glenelg, redbacks & whoever the money is on
My club : glenelg

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by mickyj on Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:59 pm

Anyone think it strange or ironic
Woodville West Torrens started as Alberton/ Port natives/ natives
And the zone in the suburbs of Adelaide that is Woodville West Torrens includes ...Alberton Port Adelside

Does that make wwtfc/Alberton / Port natives/ Natives
The real Power on Port road

avatar
mickyj

Join date : 2012-02-21
Posts : 2019
My club : eagles

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by Scrappy on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:14 pm

Interesting Micky

In this time frame of for these clubs :
1897-1990 Port Adelaide, West Adelaide, West Torrens
1964-1990 Woodville

PA had a lot of premiership success
WT had less premiership success
WDV had no premiership success
WA had less premiership success

Without knowing who had what zones in all those years
Should WT and WA have been more successful 1897-1990 ?
The 1897 Electorate system should have meant that sides like WA/WT should have been more successful ?

By the time Woodville entered the comp in 1964, did that make things even harder for West Torrens to be more successful ?
avatar
Scrappy

Join date : 2012-05-15
Posts : 3573

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by mickyj on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:20 pm

Scrappy wrote:Interesting Micky

In this time frame of for these clubs :
1897-1990 Port Adelaide, West Adelaide, West Torrens
1964-1990 Woodville

PA had a lot of premiership success
WT had less premiership success
WDV had no  premiership success
WA had less premiership success

Without knowing who had what zones in all those years
Should WT and WA have been more successful 1897-1990 ?
The 1897 Electorate system should have meant that sides like WA/WT should have been more successful ?

By the time Woodville entered the comp in 1964, did that make things even harder for West Torrens to be more successful ?

Side note Woodville was part of West Torrens zone pre entering the SANFL comp.
I'm over 50 and older people have told me pre 1964 family names those who were recruited from local club Woodville to West Torrens
Woodville were supposed to hinder Port but did they hinder Torrens
Or had the slide started then
Guess when my dad came from North Broken Hill to try out 60 years ago and wasn't good enough the slide might have begun
avatar
mickyj

Join date : 2012-02-21
Posts : 2019
My club : eagles

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by bayman on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:21 pm

I think Woodville came in to the competition as a way to make Port less dominant, all it did was diminish West Torrens’ chances, well that’s the way I understand it
avatar
bayman

Join date : 2012-02-05
Posts : 7217
Location : on a marx brothers set
Teams : plympton, glenelg, redbacks & whoever the money is on
My club : glenelg

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by Scrappy on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:29 pm

So it made sense for Woodville and West Torrens to amalgamate ?
Ive never really questioned the merger , a lack of success for whatever reasons seemed logical to me
The merger has seen both clubs being mostly very competitive seen 1990
Had they converted more Grand Final appearances into wins, then the merger would be nowadays classified as a BIG success

By 1990
Natives never won a flag 1895-1896
West Torrens last won the flag in 1953
Woodville were maidens from 1964-1990

Another reason why Woodville may have been formed was to have a 10 team comp ?
Had it only been CD that would have meant a 9 team comp ?
avatar
Scrappy

Join date : 2012-05-15
Posts : 3573

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by mickyj on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:50 pm

Scrappy wrote:So it made sense for Woodville and West Torrens to amalgamate ?
Ive never really questioned the merger , a lack of success for whatever reasons seemed logical to me
The merger has seen both clubs being mostly very competitive seen 1990
Had they converted more Grand Final appearances into wins, then the merger would be nowadays classified as a BIG success

By 1990
Natives never won a flag 1895-1896
West Torrens last won the flag in 1953
Woodville were maidens from 1964-1990

Another reason why Woodville may have been formed was to have a 10 team comp ?
Had it only been CD that would have meant a 9 team comp ?

Good points scrappy
You have forgotten if Woodville and CD didn't come into the SANFL
South Adelaide IIRC were likely being moved to the CD area
avatar
mickyj

Join date : 2012-02-21
Posts : 2019
My club : eagles

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by Scrappy on Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:35 pm

Yes they were interesting times
South have not fared well since the Electorate zones were set up in 1897
They were with Norwood [1878 formed]the real deals of that time from 1877 to the zoning years

I reckon this happened ?
Circa the times when Woodville and Centrals entered the comp
There was consultation on South Adelaide being re-located
I am not sure whether South Adelaide were to be called Central Districts or maintain the South Adelaide name
It went to a vote, I reckon South survived by a solitary casting vote and that vote might have been from the league president of the times
avatar
Scrappy

Join date : 2012-05-15
Posts : 3573

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by mickyj on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:06 am

Scrappy wrote:Yes they were interesting times
South have not fared well since the Electorate zones were set up in 1897
They were with Norwood [1878 formed]the real deals of that time from 1877 to the zoning years

I reckon this happened ?
Circa the times when Woodville and Centrals entered the comp
There was consultation on South Adelaide being re-located
I am not sure whether South Adelaide were to be called Central Districts or maintain the South Adelaide name
It went to a vote, I reckon South survived by a solitary casting vote and that vote might have been from the league president of the times

You could be correct scrappy
avatar
mickyj

Join date : 2012-02-21
Posts : 2019
My club : eagles

Back to top Go down

Re: SA Football the early years 1843-1899

Post by Scrappy on Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:08 pm

Please note the Electorate System was official in 1899
In 1897/1898 some players transferred to other clubs based on residence , but its been documented that it was not compulsory as it became in 1899
avatar
Scrappy

Join date : 2012-05-15
Posts : 3573

Back to top Go down

Page 8 of 8 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum