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Re: Essendon

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:30 am

The person I feel most sorry for in all this is Jobe Watson. As spokesperson for 34 blokes caught up in this, his burden has been by far the biggest.

From what I have seen and heard of him to date, he is a class bloke with huge amount of character. Probably a chip off the old block as they say. As Sheedy said, families like Watsons and Danihers only come around now and again.

But Jobe's burden has increased even further with the question marks looming over his Brownlow. If this bloke is not disillusioned with the whole game of football it would be a miracle.

I would probably throw the medal back at them now and tell them where they could stick it and walk away from the game completely.

Jobe probably has more character than that and would probably face his detractors.

It surprises me a bit that his dad hasn't said more, but I guess he has to be careful too in his position at Ch7.

A real shame that such a champion player has had to bear the brunt of this.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Gingernuts on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:33 am

I understand that but on the flip side by continuing with the scheduled matches the broadcasters, venues, caterers, other clubs (particularly Melbourne based ones) etc are all going wear huge losses in income from dismal attendances to these games, and no one watching on TV.

Bottom line is there can be no winners in this circumstance now, so it's time to elevate the games integrity to the top of the priority list and just take the financial hit IMO.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Gingernuts on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:38 am

Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote:The person I feel most sorry for in all this is Jobe Watson. As spokesperson for 34 blokes caught up in this, his burden has been by far the biggest.

From what I have seen and heard of him to date, he is a class bloke with huge amount of character. Probably a chip off the old block as they say. As Sheedy said, families like Watsons and Danihers only come around now and again.

But Jobe's burden has increased even further with the question marks looming over his Brownlow. If this bloke is not disillusioned with the whole game of football it would be a miracle.

I would probably throw the medal back at them now and tell them where they could stick it and walk away from the game completely.

Jobe probably has more character than that and would probably face his detractors.

It surprises me a bit that his dad hasn't said more, but I guess he has to be careful too in his position at Ch7.

A real shame that such a champion player has had to bear the brunt of this.

Yea I agree with all of that.

He was certainly complicit in the program - but as the son of a Club legend you can understand why he trusted the Club and James Hird. These are relationships he's had since he was a child after all. To see him chewed up and spat out like he has been is pretty rough.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Booney on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:41 am

Gingernuts wrote:I understand that but on the flip side by continuing with the scheduled matches the broadcasters, venues, caterers, other clubs (particularly Melbourne based ones) etc are all going wear huge losses in income from dismal attendances to these games, and no one watching on TV.

Bottom line is there can be no winners in this circumstance now, so it's time to elevate the games integrity to the top of the priority list and just take the financial hit IMO.

Integrity was all lost years ago in this instance, any attempt to recover that would now, IMO, be even more farcical.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Booney on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:44 am

Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote:The person I feel most sorry for in all this is Jobe Watson. As spokesperson for 34 blokes caught up in this, his burden has been by far the biggest.

From what I have seen and heard of him to date, he is a class bloke with huge amount of character. Probably a chip off the old block as they say. As Sheedy said, families like Watsons and Danihers only come around now and again.

But Jobe's burden has increased even further with the question marks looming over his Brownlow. If this bloke is not disillusioned with the whole game of football it would be a miracle.

I would probably throw the medal back at them now and tell them where they could stick it and walk away from the game completely.

Jobe probably has more character than that and would probably face his detractors.

It surprises me a bit that his dad hasn't said more, but I guess he has to be careful too in his position at Ch7.

A real shame that such a champion player has had to bear the brunt of this.

If he's such a great leader with such integrity, why didn't he question the program?

Why didn't he seek counsel from Dr Reid, who seems to have distanced himself from the program, the same club doctor who looked after his father?

Why didn't he speak to the AFLPA about the program? Why didn't he speak to his peers from other clubs, "Hey, have you guys done anything like this?"

Whilst he has carried himself extremely well in the face of adversity he is as guilty as any of the playing group.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:45 am

If Essendon took players from their reserves or even topped up from other leagues, it was discussed on Talking Footy last night that they generally can't see them winning a game.

The prognosis on Carlton isn't good and Essendon may jag that one or maybe two.

But it seemed unanimous opinion that bottom place was firmly theirs.
So for a high profile Melbourne Club, there will be drastic implications for them across the board. Sponsors, gate takings, memberships etc etc.

I think from where things are right now, Essendon should continue in 2016.
What falls out of it may not be known for a number of years.

With the benefit of hindsight, perhaps the AFL should have addressed Essendon accordingly after a fair hearing back in 2014. But that, as we know, didn't happen.

I suppose, in reality the horse has bolted on any further penalties directly to Essendon by the AFL. General rule of law that you can't be tried twice for the same crime.

But the AFL needs to think carefully on what allowances will be made for them to field a side. Having seemingly issued a decree on that in one day, you couldn't mount a case that they have thought carefully about it. Unless of course they had this outcome already planned.

Whether they go for the jugular (as GN decrees) or let things unfold more naturally, I can see it will take Essendon 5 - 10 years to recover properly from this.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:50 am

Booney wrote:

If he's such a great leader with such integrity, why didn't he question the program?

Why didn't he seek counsel from Dr Reid, who seems to have distanced himself from the program, the same club doctor who looked after his father?

Why didn't he speak to the AFLPA about the program? Why didn't he speak to his peers from other clubs, "Hey, have you guys done anything like this?"

Whilst he has carried himself extremely well in the face of adversity he is as guilty as any of the playing group.

Not questioning anything he may be guilty of.
Who is to say he didn't question / seek counsel on any of it? I think what occurred exactly is still a bit fuzzy.
The point is just that he has copped a disproportionate amount of the burden to bear. That is all.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Booney on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 am

Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote:
Whether they go for the jugular (as GN decrees) or let things unfold more naturally, I can see it will take Essendon 5 - 10 years to recover properly from this.

Depending on the generosity of benefactors the imminent compensation claims may see the club on it's knees financially to the point that they never recover.

For mine, they have been consigned to the scrap heap, like Carlton, for many, many years to come. No longer will they be "the big Melbourne club", they'll be a bottom feeder living off scraps.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:55 am

I think this statement highlights the dilemma of athletes everywhere.

From Georgie Parker (Australian Hockey Player)

I really do feel for the 34 past and present players of the Essendon Football Club. The staff failed them.

I trust my doctors, physios and sports physiologists with my body 100%, just as these boys would have.

Yes, it is our responsibility to check what we put in our body, however I trust the prescriptions from my doctor, I trust the supplements from my physiologist and I trust the relayed information from my physio.

Unfortunately the staff at the Essendon Football Club took advantage of this trust and thought they could cheat the system, and these poor boys have paid the ultimate price.
It shows that no person or club is bigger than a clean sport.

As an athlete who would never even contemplate doping, I am glad that the system did not succumb to the external and internal pressures to let the club get away with such behaviour.

You should not be able to buy your way out of cheating. Clubs and sports with money are already at an advantage, so to be on another platform where discipline doesn't exist should not be accepted.

I believe the correct decision has been made, especially if it means other sports might think twice before thinking they could get away with something similar.

For the players, I really do hope this isn't career ruining.
For the club, I really do hope this isn't club ruining.

For the coaching staff that let this happen (especially you James Hird and Steven Dank), I really do hope you never find work in this industry again. Unlike the players, you don't deserve to be given a second chance.
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Re: Essendon

Post by bayman on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:15 pm

spot on Georgie Parker....................

if i trained a dog or horse & the swab came back positive & then the second swab came back positive as well, then the animal is disqualified from whatever placing it had & me as the trainer (insert coach) also gets disqualified for a long time...............in Hirds' case he should be disqualified from all Hall of Fames' he is in for bringing the game into disrepute, not his medals though as he hadn't been guilty of anything back then, as for Watson, yes he should be disqualified but they didn't disqualify Ben Cousins with his medal
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Re: Essendon

Post by Scrunch on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:20 pm

Cousins wasn't found guilty of any drug taking offence.
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Re: Essendon

Post by bayman on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:26 pm

Scrunch wrote:Cousins wasn't found guilty of any drug taking offence.


ok, i thought he admitted it after he finished at Richmond which put a dampener on their premierships, i stand corrected, thanks
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Re: Essendon

Post by Booney on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:31 pm

Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote:I think this statement highlights the dilemma of athletes everywhere.

Unfortunately the staff at the Essendon Football Club took advantage of this trust and thought they could cheat the system, and these poor boys have paid the ultimate price.
It shows that no person or club is bigger than a clean sport.

Always makes me laugh when this is used in a sporting sense. No, they didn't. They just miss out on playing football for a year. The "ultimate price" is death. That is THE ONLY ultimate price.
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Re: Essendon

Post by Flag No.10 on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:38 pm

I have heard one player agent mention the possibility of players suing both Essendon and the AFL over this issue. Given that this must have been seen as a possibility, isn't it ludicrous and inappropriate that an AFL tribunal was passing judgment on the matter?

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Re: Essendon

Post by bayman on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:48 pm

i hope & pray it doesn't happen but if these players all end up with the same disease in years to come, is it Essendon, the AFL or both that will be liable ?
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Re: Essendon

Post by Gingernuts on Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:58 pm

Booney wrote:
Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote:
Whether they go for the jugular (as GN decrees) or let things unfold more naturally, I can see it will take Essendon 5 - 10 years to recover properly from this.

Depending on the generosity of benefactors the imminent compensation claims may see the club on it's knees financially to the point that they never recover.

For mine, they have been consigned to the scrap heap, like Carlton, for many, many years to come. No longer will they be "the big Melbourne club", they'll be a bottom feeder living off scraps.

They'll be cooked for somewhere between 10-20 years I reckon.

The Club psyche will take years to recover from this. The fact that it was orchestrated by a 3rd generation Club legend (Hird), and not questioned by 2nd generation star (Watson) is such a massive body blow. You couldn't make this stuff up really, and incredible storyline when you think about it.

To have the great James Hird potentially responsible for the complete destruction of the Club his family has represented for generations. Diabolical stuff.
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Re: Essendon

Post by bayman on Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:02 pm

the AFL was ''invented'' because the Victorian teams in the then VFL were all going broke & this was the quick fix, now this one Victorian club has put Australian rules football into a laughing stock & that's putting it mildly
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Re: Essendon

Post by bayman on Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:43 pm

not sure where to put this but i've heard a ''rumour'' & stress ''rumour'' for 3 people that as far as i know don't know each other, so without actually putting it into a coherent sentence i'll say................

Hird
Trouble
Overseas
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