SANFL 19OO-1959

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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrappy on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:25 pm

I might cop some criticism for the following statement
Who is the better North Adelaide footballer Barrie Robran or Ken Farmer ?

I know how good Barrie Robran was , having seen him in action
I can acknowledge what a performer Ken Farmer must have been
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by rocket_rooster on Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:36 pm

Scrappy wrote:I might cop some criticism for the following statement
Who is the better North Adelaide footballer Barrie Robran or Ken Farmer ?

I know how good Barrie Robran was , having seen him in action
I can acknowledge what a performer Ken Farmer must have been
Ken Farmer only played full forward. Barrie Robran could play in any position.
The SA Sports Hall of Fame only has three legends. Bradman, Bart Cummings and Robran.
Robran is the only non AFL/VFL player to be elevated to legend in the AFL Hall of Fame.
When Mike Coward and Geoff Kingston listed South Australia's best 40 players of the first century of SA footy they had Robran at number one. I think they had Farmer at about number 5 (cue Robranisgod)
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by RODH2 on Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:56 pm

Have to think about itRobran.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Flag No.10 on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:26 pm

It's a good question though. And is versatility the most important criterion? If a full back beats every opponent he ever plays on, is he less of a player than a very talented utility? Would Robran have kicked as many goals as Farmer if he'd only played full forward?

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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by rocket_rooster on Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:34 am

Flag No.10 wrote:It's a good question though. And is versatility the most important criterion? If a full back beats every opponent he ever plays on, is he less of a player than a very talented utility? Would Robran have kicked as many goals as Farmer if he'd only played full forward?

He would have kicked more.

He was the absolute complete footballer, Listen to people like Neil Kerley speak about Robran.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Flag No.10 on Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:33 am

I'm not questioning how good he was, I saw him. And he's the best I've seen. But would he have been better in every position than the best players in those positions? That's an interesting question.

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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrunch on Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:57 pm

rocket_rooster wrote:
Scrunch wrote:
rocket_rooster wrote:You also make a good point about what would have happened if Port had lost that 1954 Grand Final. It would have meant Port would have lost two very close Grand Finals in a row and would they then have won all of the subsequent close Grand Finals. Of course, we will never know, just a good point to ponder.

Port won another close one in that run, against Norwood. As told to me by a Norwood source (so perhaps biased), Norwood had control in the first half until Brian Sawley (one of Norwoods best players) got injured. Being the days of 19th and 20th men, Sawley was left on the ground basically on 1 leg, in a defensive post and Geoff Motley carved him up on route to 7 goals (or similar) and a relatively narrow victory.

That is only half the story. Legend has it that on the same night as the 1957 Grand Final coach Haydn Bunton caught Sawley running up the stairs of the Ambassador Hotel and there was some sort of confrontation given that Sawley wasn't "fit enough" to keep up with Motley. Motley had been soundly beaten in the centre by Peter Koerner until half time and was shifted to the half forward flank where he did in fact kick seven goals in the second half.

Port won that match by 11 points after trailing by 13 points at half time.

The next year Port beat West by 2 points in the Grand Final after trailing all day. That was the famous game where "Melbourne Jack" Richardson hit the post in the final moments of the game.

In 1959 Port beat West by 10 points after losing the second semi final to them and in 1962 Port beat West by 3 points in the Grand Final.


Thanks RR, love hearing these old stories. There's some great info and memories among older SANFL supporters, hope all the myths/legends/folklore are stored away somewhere safe.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:53 pm

This is something you basically can't find on the club web sites these days.
Really only the current stuff.

I would like to read more of the old stories too.

As things wear on in this 'enlightened' age, it will all the harder to find connection to those days that we grew up with. As for the days before that, we are only regaled with those stories by our very senior subscribers.

Sometimes a good book comes along, like the recent one "The Old Double Blues" from Angel Fernandez.

A bit sad really.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrappy on Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:59 am

Heres an interesting book

The Stringers
A Family Of Footballers

www.northernargus.com.au/story/2770200/a-family-of-footballers/
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by UncleHuey on Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:59 pm

Scrappy wrote:Heres an interesting book

The Stringers
A Family Of Footballers

www.northernargus.com.au/story/2770200/a-family-of-footballers/

That might be worth a read. Wayne Stringer was a rock of the half back flank for both North and the Bays, very skilled and courageous.
Alan had fantastic skills but he never saw a head he didn't want to hit, he was what we might politely call "undisciplined".
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrappy on Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:56 pm

West Torrens 1945
After round 13 they were 6 wins and 7 losses
SA easily defeated WT
SA 18-13[121]
WT 9-13[67]
That game was played at Adelaide Oval on 4/8/1945
There were 4 rounds to go in a 17 round season

Days later the earth shook
The USA bombed Hiroshima 6/8 and Nagasaki 9/8
Those bombings have arguably shaped the world as we know it now

2 daze after the Nagasaki bombing West Torrens played West Adelaide at the Adelaide Oval
The mindsets of the players ?

West Torrens last 4 games in the Minor Round

WA 12-11
WT 14-21

NA 11-15
WT 13-15

SA 12-9
WT 11-25

WT 21-21
GL 13-12

WT were a game plus substantial % behind ST on the ladder with 4 rounds to go
They won 4 in a row
ST won only once

FIRST SEMI FINAL
WT 6-10...8-12...10-14...14-22
NA 1-0.....8-4......10-7...15-10

A remarkable final
WT rover Jim Thoms , a Footscray recruit kicked the winning goal for WT
The only problem with Thoms winning goal was that the siren had sounded about half a minute before he kicked the goal
The umpire was Ken Aplin , who didnt hear the siren ring
Thoms was a ring in as well
He played the 1945 season for Footscray
Then played for WT in the 1945 finals series
The reason he was allowed to play for WT  might have been a National service qualification ?

PRELIM FINAL
WT 7-5...7-6...11-8.....14-13
NW 2-1...8-6...12-8.....14-9

The Preliminary Final win was the 6th win a row to WT
Bearing mind , each win was more or less in elimination matches
WT were just over 4 goals down in the 3rd quarter

GRAND FINAL
WT...2-7...9-11...13-17...15-25
PA ...8-3...9-7.....13-11...15-12

WT 7 wins in a row and a flag
In all 3 finals both teams kicked either 14 or 15 goals
PA scored 8-3, the highest first qtr score of the times
47,500 rolled up, the most of any Grand Finals at the time
There was a R Roberts who played for WT, not the one that ended up at Norwood...
BIG Bob Mclean was the PA lead ruckman
Hayden Bunton Senior played for PA that season
From 1889 to 1945 , only 3 times GF attendances went over 40,000 , all 3 times WT were involved
1924 v ST [44345]
1939 V PA [44885]
1945 V PA [47500]
Looks like WT must have had a decent following in those days

This was in the WT annual report of 1945 , on the Grand Final
* The young West Torrens side came back with a burst of atomic energy and wiped off the big deficit.*

That GF win 54 days after Hiroshima was devastated
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:33 am

The Eags would have been as invincible as 'the bomb' if they could kick straight.

Out of all those games, only the Prelim had them kicking more goals than points. And then only by 1.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrunch on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:22 am

Great read that Scrappy, remarkable run from Torrens
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Flag No.10 on Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:17 pm

Fantastic post Scrappy. Can't believe I hadn't heard of that scenario before.

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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrappy on Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:25 pm

R ROBERTS
The R Roberts I was referring to was Alf Roberts
The R Roberts was a pun for Rocky Roberts who played for WT/RI/NW


BEST ?
If there is a discussion on who the best WT player was  between WWI to 1959 then arguably the top 3 in order might be
Bobby Hank
Lindsay Head
Alf Roberts

Saying who the best is, without seeing them all play is difficult
I saw Head who was a magician , late in his career
Ive been told old timers who saw both Hank and Head play have said Hank was better
As for Alf Roberts, purely guess work whether he was 3rd best
Ive read publications on how good Alf was

BELL
I had posted it was the siren that Ken Aplin did not hear in the 45 GF
It was a bell
The siren was introduced in 1946
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrunch on Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:01 am

Yes Ive been told the same by the older generation that saw them both play
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:12 pm

Yes me too.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Scrappy on Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:01 pm

1919 SANFL FINALS

It was not quite 12 months after the 11/11/1918 end of WWI  
The world was resuming normality , the SANFL resumed after a 4 year hiatus
This finals series was simply mind boggling

MINOR ROUND LADDER
ST 10-2
WT 9-3
NA 7-5
PA 6-5-1
SA 4-7-1
WA 4-8
NW 1-11 [only beat WA in their first game of the season]

FIRST SEMI
NA 2-8...3-14...6-15... 7-18
ST 0-1....1-2.....2-4......3-5

SECOND SEMI
WT...3-2...3-3...5-4...9-5
PA....1-2...2-2.. 3-2...5-5

PRELIM FINAL
WT...1-1...1-3...2-3...2-3
NA...1-0....1-0...2-2...2-3

PRELIM FINAL REPLAY
WT...2-0...5-2...5-3...5-3
NA...1-0...5-0...5-1...6-2

GRAND FINAL
ST...0.1...4-4...4-6...5-9
NA...4-3..5-3....5-4...5-9

GRAND FINAL REPLAY
ST...0-2...0-3...0-4...3-5
NA...0-3...1-4...2-6...2-6

NA incredibly were involved in 2 drawn finals , and played 5 finals in total
ST were easily beaten by NA in the first semi final , but for whatever reasons progressed straight into the Grand Final [clauses for finishing minor premier ?]

The Grand Final replay saw a Sturt win by 5 points
I have a description of the final by Sturt player, the champion Victor Richardson

* When football was resumed in Adelaide in 1919, Sturt carried off its second premiership in one of the most exciting and low scoring games of all time
At 3/4 time and with only 25 minutes of play plus injury time remaining, Sturt had not scored a goal against the other grand finalist North Adelaide...
We scored a goal early in the final quarter, and another 10 minutes before time
As the final bell was about to ring, we trialed by a point
Then a bald headed Sturt ruckman, Ivor Nicolle. marked a mis-kick from a team-mate about 40 yards from goal
Nicolle was not a long kicker of the ball
Forty yards was about his limit
But his low, straight kick just carried the distance to clear the fingers of the leaping North pack in the goalmouth
The rules governing ''time on'' were different in those days and the bell rang before the ball could be bounced in the centre
Nicolle has written his name in history
Sturt took the premiership 3 goals 5 behinds to 2 goals 6 behinds or by 5 points with the last kick of the match and the season
Many a North Adelaide heart was broken and many a Sturt hat was trampled beyond repair as a result of that kick of the bald headed Ivors*

NA can be considered unlucky in finals on the resumption of both world wars
In 1945 they lost the first semi final with a goal kicked 30 seconds after the BELL sounded
In 1919 they lost the Grand Final by a matter of seconds
Vic Richardson said the winning goal cleared the fingers of the leaping NA pack
From a NA perspective where was a Leaping Lindner type when you needed one

Also the finals system of the time has to be queried ?
That ST went straight into a Grand Final after losing to NA in the First Semi Final
I am not detracting the ST win, they won on the day, which is all that counts, however NA a tad unlucky perhaps that ST progressed straight to the GF
But then again, NA led by 26 points at qtr time in the first GF
So in essence ST did well to eventually win the GF

Which ever way I look at these finals on face value , it was an amazing finals series
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by robranisgod on Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:51 pm

Scrappy wrote:R ROBERTS


BELL
I had posted it was the siren that Ken Aplin did not hear in the 45 GF
It was a bell
The siren was introduced in 1946

The incident in the 1945 First Semi final gave rise to the siren being introduced. History states that after the first semi final irate North supportes dismantled the bell.

I am not being flippant when I suggest that in 1946 there would have been a number of sirens available to be used because they would previously have been installed in air raid shelters around the city and suburbs.

In fact Prospect, Glenelg and Thebarton Ovals all had air raid shelters on their perimeter so it wouldn't have been far to move the sirens. Other grounds may have had them as well but I know that the Prospect and Glenelg ones still exist.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Flag No.10 on Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:40 pm

These stories would make fantastic short historical, promotional video pieces for the SANFL, using archival photos or any film footage available and voiceover.

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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by robranisgod on Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:12 pm

Flag No.10 wrote:These stories would make fantastic short historical, promotional video pieces for the SANFL, using archival photos or any film footage available and voiceover.

There is footage of the 1949 Grand Final played between North and Torrens. Mike Sexton did a brilliant report on that game for Stateline after the 60th anniversary of the game and it included some highlights from the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eYEIeB7F7g

A club supporter shot 16 minutes of the lead up the actual game and celebrations of which both North and the Eagles have a copy. There may be some copyright restrictions that would prevent it from being posted. Poignantly North were able to give Bob Hank a copy of that film shortly before Bob died. His wife had mentioned to North Adelaide that there was no vision of Bob playing and his children never saw him play. At least they now have a fleeting glimpse of him turning on to the left foot and stab passing.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:09 am

That raises an interesting point whether any footage generally exists of games played pre about 1955 or so. IE Pre television era.

Locating and collating it would make a great (and almost necessary) project for clubs and the sanfl.

Not sure if there has been any work on this by anyone, but if such footage exists, the skills of these greats of the game could be lost to posterity if not stored on current media and that would be a pity.

Albeit quite a task I would imagine.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Lee on Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:10 am

Most clubs have a history group of some sort. Mark Beswick does a wonderful job at Westies with a terrific group. They're currently collating and recording a huge inventory of West Adelaide memorabilia.

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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:58 am

Yes, have met a few. I know Mark and John Lysikatos at Sturt.
Those guys and others do a great job.
Some of the web sites as I mentioned in the Numbers thread have a very good collection of past names and details.

Just recalling what RIG raised, I have no recollection of ever seeing much of the pre 1960s era in moving footage.
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Re: SANFL 19OO-1959

Post by robranisgod on Mon Dec 19, 2016 4:22 pm

Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote:Yes, have met a few. I know Mark and John Lysikatos at Sturt.
Those guys and others do a great job.
Some of the web sites as I mentioned in the Numbers thread have a very good collection of past names and details.

Just recalling what RIG raised, I have no recollection of ever seeing much of the pre 1960s era in moving footage.
1949 is the earliest Grand Final footage that I have seen. The next vision I have seen is of the 1953 North vs Norwood match played at the SCG. There is certainly footage of the 1958 and 1960 Grand Finals.
The first Grand Final telecast in South Australia was 1964. In 1963 highlights were filmed from the Creswell Stand by the ABC.
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