Trading Future Picks

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Trading Future Picks

Post by Flag No.10 on Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:59 pm

So Geelong have traded their first round pick in the 2016 Draft as part of the Lachie Henderson deal. What happens if, say half-way through next year, Geelong are found to have breached the salary cap (or committed some other misdemeanour) and are precluded from the 2016 Draft? Their draft pick then doesn't exist and every other team should move up one spot in the draft order. How does this work?

Flag No.10

Join date : 2012-01-07
Posts : 1977
Teams : West Adelaide
My club : west

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Ben W on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:15 am

That is a good question, most likely I suspect they would alter what they would do about it, likely suspending them for the years that they have access to the draft along with something else more immediate?
avatar
Ben W

Join date : 2011-12-22
Posts : 1167
Teams : South Adelaide, East Fremantle, Sheffield Wednesday, Danny Green, Penrith Panthers.
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:48 pm

Just looking at the Gold Coast Suns who have been very active this trade period.
A reasonable amount of the initial talent that was going to deliver them a premiership in 5 years is now gone. Dixon, Smith, Bennell this trade period.
They seem to be acquiring draft picks to re-build the list.

Similarly GWS have been quite active.

Both clubs seem to be struggling to keep these young guns now that they have been around a while.
avatar
Chambo Off To Work We Go

Join date : 2012-02-03
Posts : 2791
My club : sturt

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:05 pm

For a few reasons, but I would think that many have realized :

- Earning potential is better elsewhere
- The "market" they are in is never, ever going to deliver home finals in front of 50,000 people
- Success isn't "just around the corner"
- Football club are best when football people are in charge, not corporate suits who run a business
- Learning your craft with a group of others just like you can lead to bad habits on and off field
avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Thu Oct 22, 2015 11:33 am

Can St Kilda trade Jake Carlisle now for a future pick? Laughing
avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Gingernuts on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:22 pm

I'm surprised anyone even wanted him even before this episode.

It was pretty clear he was a person of dubious character.

He spent the back half of the year slagging off his club and team mates to anyone who would listen, not to mention he looks like someone who spends most of his time sleeping on mates couches and/or generally doesn't get out of bed before midday.
avatar
Gingernuts

Join date : 2012-02-01
Posts : 2493
Teams : Adelaide, Sth Adelaide, Langhorne Creek
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:28 pm

Gingernuts wrote:I'm surprised anyone even wanted him even before this episode.

It was pretty clear he was a person of dubious character.

He spent the back half of the year slagging off his club and team mates to anyone who would listen, not to mention he looks like someone who spends most of his time sleeping on mates couches and/or generally doesn't get out of bed before midday.

lol!
avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Ben W on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:12 am

I don't know what all the fuss is about, one might realistically think that Carlisle would fit right in at St Kilda and that really they would be the ideal club for him...
avatar
Ben W

Join date : 2011-12-22
Posts : 1167
Teams : South Adelaide, East Fremantle, Sheffield Wednesday, Danny Green, Penrith Panthers.
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Gingernuts on Fri Oct 23, 2015 10:36 am

Well - he certainly wouldn't look out of place wondering down Ackland street asking for people's loose change.
avatar
Gingernuts

Join date : 2012-02-01
Posts : 2493
Teams : Adelaide, Sth Adelaide, Langhorne Creek
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:13 am

Remember when Carlton weren't in a rebuild phase (according to Malthouse)?

They have traded out a bunch more blokes and with retirements like Judd, Carazzo etc. I think the substantial number of first round and high picks available to them in the draft, it is looking everything like a rebuild.

What else were they going to do to rejuvenate the most horrible list in the afl?

Still going to take them a good while before they look solid again.
avatar
Chambo Off To Work We Go

Join date : 2012-02-03
Posts : 2791
My club : sturt

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:33 am

avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:34 am

WINNERS

COLLINGWOOD
IN: Jeremy Howe (Melbourne), Adam Treloar (GWS), James Aish (Brisbane)
OUT: Nathan Freeman (St Kilda), Ben Kennedy (Melbourne), Paul Seedsman (Adelaide)
DRAFT PICKS: 27, 66, 77, 83, 84, 101, 119
The Magpies picked up the best player not named Dangerfield in this trade period while also adding one of Melbourne’s five best players and a Lion who was the highest-rated player in the country as a 16-year-old.
It cost them first round picks this year and next but Nathan Buckley’s side will be a popular top eight selection after their work this week.

ESSENDON
IN: Matthew Leuenberger (Brisbane), Craig Bird (Sydney)
OUT: Jake Carlisle (St Kilda), Jonathan Giles (West Coast), Jake Melksham (Melbourne)
DRAFT PICKS: 4, 5, 24, 25, 57, 80, 98, 116
If they can keep Leuenberger on the field and get the former Brisbane ruckman anywhere near his best form the Bombers will have filled one of the two positions that have plagued them in recent seasons. Unfortunately the other — a key position forward to support Joe Daniher — remains vacant and is only heightened by the departure of Carlisle.
Bird is an underrated player who offers premiership experience and picks four and five allow John Worsfold to start building for the future.

GEELONG
IN: Patrick Dangerfield (Adelaide), Lachie Henderson (Carlton), Scott Selwood (West Coast), Zac Smith (Gold Coast)
OUT: Dean Gore (Adelaide), Steve Johnson, Dawson Simpson (GWS), Jarrad Jansen, Josh Walker (Brisbane)
DRAFT PICKS: 67, 85, 103, 121
The Cats made it clear they want their absence from the finals to be a one-year proposition by bringing in four experienced players at the sacrifice of any presence in the draft.
Dangerfield should have the same effect as Chris Judd and Gary Ablett did after their mid-career club switches while Henderson will boost the lowest-scoring attack in the top 12.

PORT ADELAIDE
IN: Charlie Dixon (Gold Coast), Jimmy Toumpas (Melbourne)
OUT: Nil
DRAFT PICKS: 32, 49, 86, 104, 122
The Power enjoyed their third successful trade period in a row — largely because they continue to be a destination club. Dixon will provide a seriously big target in the forward line and returning to SA may spark Toumpas’s career.
The Matthew Lobbe situation is worth reviewing next season. If he struggles to play it may have been better to attempt to flip him for another player or draft pick.

RICHMOND
IN: Jacob Townsend (GWS), Chris Yarran (Carlton)
OUT: Nil
DRAFT PICKS: 12, 52, 88, 106, 120, 124
The Tigers emphasised how close they felt they were to contending last season by pretty much focusing all their energy on securing Yarran. They finally got their man this afternoon but will he be enough to get them over the hump?

WEST COAST
IN: Jonathan Giles (Essendon), Lewis Jetta (Sydney), Jack Redden (Brisbane)
OUT: Matt Rosa (Gold Coast), Scott Selwood (Geelong), Callum Sinclair (Sydney)
DRAFT PICKS: 23, 31, 62, 75, 93, 111, 129
The Eagles look to have closed the gap on Hawthorn by adding Jetta and Redden, but exactly how much remains to be seen. Both are experienced, peak-age footballers who at their best will add quality to Adam Simpson’s side. None of the departures are significant.

WESTERN BULLDOGS
IN: Matt Suckling (Hawthorn)
OUT: Michael Talia (Sydney)
DRAFT PICKS: 20, 21, 30, 51, 87, 105, 123
Only one real piece of work for the Dogs’s footy department during the trade period but it wasn’t a bad one. Suckling may have missed out on a spot in Hawthorn’s starting 21 on Grand Final day but he’s an effective ball user who should mesh well with Luke Beveridge’s run-and-gun game.




LOSERS
ADELAIDE
IN: Paul Seedsman (Collingwood), Curtly Hampton (GWS), Dean Gore (Geelong), Troy Menzel (Carlton)
OUT: Patrick Dangerfield (Geelong), Sam Kerridge (Carlton)
DRAFT PICKS: 9, 13, 71, 89, 107, 125
Couldn’t have recovered much better from losing one of the best three players in the competition but in US monetary terms they’ve replaced a $1 coin (Dangerfield) with three quarters (Seedsman, Hampton, Menzel) and a dime (Gore).
The early draft picks are great given the lack of first round talent this club has secured in recent years but this trade period likely keeps the Crows a year or two away from legitimately contending.

BRISBANE
IN: Jarrad Jansen, Josh Walker (Geelong), Ryan Bastinac (North Melbourne), Tom Bell (Carlton)
OUT: Matthew Leuenberger (Essendon), Jack Redden (West Coast), James Aish (Collingwood)
DRAFT PICKS: 2, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 78, 96, 114,
After the success of last year’s trade period where the Lions secured Dayne Beams and Allen Christensen they returned to normal this year by farewelling three players they would have preferred to keep.
Walker gives them something to kick to in attack next season and Bell and Bastinac will play but they need to nail the second pick in the draft.

CARLTON
IN: Jed Lamb, Andrew Phillips, Lachie Plowman, Liam Sumner (GWS), Sam Kerridge (Adelaide)
OUT: Tom Bell (Brisbane), Lachie Henderson (Geelong), Troy Menzel (Adelaide), Chris Yarran (Richmond)
DRAFT PICKS: 1, 8, 11, 19, 59, 60, 113
Lost three top 10 players at the club (Yarran, Bell, Henderson) and another who had the potential to be one next season (Menzel). Despite adding four Giants they missed out on the one they really wanted (Adam Tomlinson) and Kerridge was never able to secure a regular spot in Adelaide.
It’s going to be a long rebuild at the Blues but with four picks inside the top 20 — including pick one — they’re in position to start.

GOLD COAST
IN: Matt Rosa (West Coast), Daniel Currie (North Melbourne)
OUT: Harley Bennell (Fremantle), Charlie Dixon (Port Adelaide), Zac Smith (Geelong)
DRAFT PICKS: 6, 16, 29, 35, 61, 79, 97, 115
You can argue the Suns didn’t need to do a lot during this trade period with ‘recruits’ like Gary Ablett, Jaeger O’Meara, Dion Prestia and David Swallow to return from injury next season.
But losing Dixon and Bennell — at least from a talent and return on investment point of view — is a blow.

GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY
IN: Steve Johnson, Dawson Simpson (Geelong)
OUT: Adam Treloar (Collingwood), Curtly Hampton (Adelaide), Jed Lamb, Andrew Phillips, Lachie Plowman, Liam Sumner (Carlton), Jacob Townsend (Richmond), Tomas Bugg (Melbourne)
DRAFT PICKS: 10, 34, 43, 53, 55, 58, 63, 64, 65, 70, 95, 102
It's hard to make sense of what the Giants have done by clearing out such a large number of players and only adding Johnson and Simpson.
Treloar’s departure hurts because at this point he was arguably the best homegrown player in Giants’ history. Stevie J has a bit left in the tank but might not be enough to push GWS into the eight.

HAWTHORN
IN: Jack Fitzpatrick (Melbourne)
OUT: Jed Anderson (North Melbourne), Matt Suckling (Western Bulldogs)
DRAFT PICKS: 15, 18, 48, 76, 112, 130
The Hawks traded their way to a second first round draft pick but gave up a youngster who showed signs of getting over the hump last season (Anderson) and a regular member of their 22 (Suckling). No great damage done here though.

SYDNEY
IN: Callum Sinclair (West Coast), Michael Talia (Western Bulldogs)
OUT: Craig Bird (Essendon), Lewis Jetta (West Coast)
DRAFT PICKS: 33, 36, 37, 44, 54, 69, 72, 90, 108, 126
Like the Giants, the Swans have stockpiled draft picks between 30 and 70 to use on their academy players.
Sinclair replaces retired ruckman Mike Pyke but will need to improve his game to prevent this department continuing to be a weakness against the Fremantles and North Melbournes of the competition.
Bird and Jetta didn’t offer much in 2015 but it wouldn’t surprise to see them re-emerge as strong contributors at their new clubs.


BREAKING EVEN
FREMANTLE
IN: Harley Bennell (Gold Coast)
OUT: Nil
DRAFT PICKS: 22, 56, 74, 92, 110, 128
The jury is still out on Fremantle’s major piece of business because the Dockers don’t have a 100 per cent success rate with mature-age recruits (see: Sylvia, Colin and Gumbleton, Scott). But Bennell’s talent is undeniable and if he can stay out of trouble he allows Ross Lyon to reload for another Grand Final tilt.
The failure to work a deal with GWS for Cam McCarthy prevents this trade period from being an undeniable success.

ST KILDA
IN: Jake Carlisle (Essendon), Nathan Freeman (Collingwood)
OUT: Nil
DRAFT PICKS: 14, 45, 68, 81, 99, 117
Looked like a tidy week of work for the Saints recruiting team until A Current Affair got involved. That Jake Carlisle video certainly took a lot of the gloss off his signing but perhaps it will make him even more determined to make a fist of things.

MELBOURNE
IN: Jake Melksham (Essendon), Ben Kennedy (Collingwood), Tomas Bugg (GWS)
OUT: Jeremy Howe (Collingwood), Jimmy Toumpas (Port Adelaide), Jack Fitzpatrick (Hawthorn)
DRAFT PICKS: 3, 7, 46, 50, 82, 94, 100, 118
In terms of the players they’ve added and subtracted there wasn’t a lot lost or gain by Melbourne. Howe is arguably a better player than Melksham but the Demons can add talent after trading their way into two top seven draft picks.

NORTH MELBOURNE
IN: Jed Anderson (Hawthorn)
OUT: Daniel Currie (Gold Coast), Ryan Bastinac (Brisbane)
DRAFT PICKS: 17, 26, 28, 47, 73, 91, 109, 127
Added another contributor in the midfield in Anderson who importantly has youth on his side. In essence he’s almost a swap for Bastinac because the Kangaroos regained the first round selection they handed to Hawthorn in their trade with the Lions.

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/afl-tr ... 7578519929 - By Jai Bednall
avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Gingernuts on Fri Oct 23, 2015 11:46 am

Adelaide 'lost' in literal terms I guess by Dangerfield leaving, but considering they had no control over that I feel like that extracted absolutely everything they could from this trade period.

I'm really impressed with what they've achieved, and applaud the way they went about it by leveraging the loss of 1 blue chip player to address multiple list deficiencies, all while still retaining 2 first round draft picks.

To still manufacture a situation where the membership/supporter base is still excited despite losing a player of Dangerfield's calibre is an exceptional effort.

Now it comes down to the draft, as Noble was saying last night "you trade for needs and you draft for talent". Will be very interested to see who they manage to pick up.
avatar
Gingernuts

Join date : 2012-02-01
Posts : 2493
Teams : Adelaide, Sth Adelaide, Langhorne Creek
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Flag No.10 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:18 am

Just back on Carlisle, has there been any announcement by the AFL on what penalty he might be looking at, or whether an investigation is under way? You'd think that if someone like Saad gets rubbed out for two years because of a banned substance in a sports drink, Carlisle might be looking at a heavier penalty.

Flag No.10

Join date : 2012-01-07
Posts : 1977
Teams : West Adelaide
My club : west

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Gingernuts on Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:34 am

Deathly silence from the AFL as far as I know.

Pretty disappointing.

As far as drugs go I think there should be a zero tolerance policy on it. These kids have been afforded the opportunity of a lifetime being able to play their favourite sport professionally.

I have no sympathy for anyone who chooses to jeopardise that by doing drugs. Immediate termination of contract and see ya later as far as I'm concerned.

Give that opportunity to the next kid who will hopefully appreciate it more.
avatar
Gingernuts

Join date : 2012-02-01
Posts : 2493
Teams : Adelaide, Sth Adelaide, Langhorne Creek
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by UncleHuey on Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:27 pm

Flag No.10 wrote:Just back on Carlisle, has there been any announcement by the AFL on what penalty he might be looking at, or whether an investigation is under way? You'd think that if someone like Saad gets rubbed out for two years because of a banned substance in a sports drink, Carlisle might be looking at a heavier penalty.

The AFL would have to prove what it was before it handed out a penalty. If Carlisle insists it was harmless and there is nothing in a blood or p**s test what can they do. Given that Bennell was photographed with a "white powder" and escaped AFL punishment there isn't a precedent to follow. being stupid is not a suspendable offence Very Happy
avatar
UncleHuey

Join date : 2013-03-20
Posts : 1021
My club : glenelg

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:56 pm

UncleHuey wrote:
Flag No.10 wrote:Just back on Carlisle, has there been any announcement by the AFL on what penalty he might be looking at, or whether an investigation is under way? You'd think that if someone like Saad gets rubbed out for two years because of a banned substance in a sports drink, Carlisle might be looking at a heavier penalty.

The AFL would have to prove what it was before it handed out a penalty. If Carlisle insists it was harmless and there is nothing in a blood or p**s test what can they do. Given that Bennell was photographed with a "white powder" and escaped AFL punishment there isn't a precedent to follow. being stupid is not a suspendable offence Very Happy

You can only be charged with drug offences if you have drugs on you, or are involved in the manufacture of a commercial quantity.

If Carlisle gets it out of his system before he is tested, nothing they can do.

Not just the AFL hush hush on it, he's technically an Essendon player until October 31, what have they said?
avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:00 pm

Gingernuts wrote:Deathly silence from the AFL as far as I know.

Pretty disappointing.

As far as drugs go I think there should be a zero tolerance policy on it. These kids have been afforded the opportunity of a lifetime being able to play their favourite sport professionally.

I have no sympathy for anyone who chooses to jeopardise that by doing drugs. Immediate termination of contract and see ya later as far as I'm concerned.

Give that opportunity to the next kid who will hopefully appreciate it more.

It's been very, very poorly handled, but then again, did we expect any better?

As for the tolerance / penalties. I'm for giving players one chance, if you test positive once it should be ( in my system ) a fine of 50% of your years salary. If you repeat offend, then off you go. That way nobody needs to know ( where as a suspension of 6 or 10 weeks the whole world will know what you have done ) and the player cops a very, very heavy penalty. But of course, the players "union" wouldn't stand for that now, would they?

Young blokes, most not smart, with huge cash reserves and plenty of spare time can be afforded one error in judgment for mine. It would ruin the life of a 24 year old with no life skills, only football ability, to be cast aside after one misdemeanor.

Having said that, F.I.F.O miners live to zero tolerance, but I think most of them are smarter with their substance use.
avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Flag No.10 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:21 pm

Booney wrote:

You can only be charged with drug offences if you have drugs on you, or are involved in the manufacture of a commercial quantity.

If Carlisle gets it out of his system before he is tested, nothing they can do.


Why wouldn't they ask him what substance he was ingesting in the video for which he was so apologetic?

Flag No.10

Join date : 2012-01-07
Posts : 1977
Teams : West Adelaide
My club : west

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Gingernuts on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:24 pm

Yeah fair point regarding the 1 warning.

A lot of them are forced to move away from their family support networks as a result of the draft as well.
avatar
Gingernuts

Join date : 2012-02-01
Posts : 2493
Teams : Adelaide, Sth Adelaide, Langhorne Creek
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Booney on Tue Oct 27, 2015 2:33 pm

Flag No.10 wrote:
Booney wrote:

You can only be charged with drug offences if you have drugs on you, or are involved in the manufacture of a commercial quantity.

If Carlisle gets it out of his system before he is tested, nothing they can do.


Why wouldn't they ask him what substance he was ingesting in the video for which he was so apologetic?

He can tell them it's cocaine, speed, whatever he wants but he can't be charged with anything other than "disrepute".

The AFL's stance here has been abhorrent and well below par. They needed to make a stand.
avatar
Booney

Join date : 2011-12-12
Posts : 1984
Location : Alberton.....literally.
Teams : Port Adelaide, Chicago White Sox
My club : port

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Gingernuts on Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:16 pm

I agree.

Not like they haven't got enough in the coffers to deal with any legal challenge that might come their way.
avatar
Gingernuts

Join date : 2012-02-01
Posts : 2493
Teams : Adelaide, Sth Adelaide, Langhorne Creek
My club : south

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Flag No.10 on Tue Oct 27, 2015 3:44 pm

Booney wrote:

He can tell them it's cocaine, speed, whatever he wants but he can't be charged with anything other than "disrepute".


That's all they'd need to charge him with. Cousins got a 12 month ban on those sorts of charges after admitting to drug use.

Flag No.10

Join date : 2012-01-07
Posts : 1977
Teams : West Adelaide
My club : west

Back to top Go down

Re: Trading Future Picks

Post by Flag No.10 on Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:54 pm

Well, here it is. The AFL have savaged Carlisle with a 2-week ban. Similar penalty to what you get for tripping. (Although tripping probably requires the use of LSD rather than a "white substance".)
By my reckoning that would mean a murder conviction would get you an 8-week ban.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-06/carlisle-cops-twogame-ban

Flag No.10

Join date : 2012-01-07
Posts : 1977
Teams : West Adelaide
My club : west

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum