time to prove a point re AFL teams

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time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by bayman on Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:38 pm

now the Power reserves are out of this years finals race, i urge every person who like me is against the AFL franchises in ''our'' competition, to go to the footy for the next two weeks in a show that without them more people will turn up, they wont have the excuse of Norwood, Sturt, Port or Glenelg who are the big ''natural crowd pullers'' playing in these two weeks.........................it doesn't matter who you barrack for, just go & send them a message that without the franchises the competition will flourish
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Aceman on Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:43 pm

bayman wrote:now the Power reserves are out of this years finals race, i urge every person who like me is against the AFL franchises in ''our'' competition, to go to the footy for the next two weeks in a show that without them more people will turn up, they wont have the excuse of Norwood, Sturt, Port or Glenelg who are the big ''natural crowd pullers'' playing in these two weeks.........................it doesn't matter who you barrack for, just go & send them a message that without the franchises the competition will flourish
Great idea.
Might head down and watch the u18's GF and stay for the main game.
Will probably attend the League GF
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Booney on Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:45 am

bayman wrote:now the Power reserves are out of this years finals race, i urge every person who like me is against the AFL franchises in ''our'' competition, to go to the footy for the next two weeks in a show that without them more people will turn up, they wont have the excuse of Norwood, Sturt, Port or Glenelg who are the big ''natural crowd pullers'' playing in these two weeks.........................it doesn't matter who you barrack for, just go & send them a message that without the franchises the competition will flourish

So you protest the minor round games by not attending, to send a message to the powers that be, then you urge people to attend the GF to demonstrate to the powers that be your commitment to the league?

Interesting spin on things.


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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Lee on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:20 am

My view is that the problems with the AFL teams in the competition are as follows:

The damage to the integrity of the competition by having teams that have different rules of player eligibility.

The damage to the integrity of the competition by having teams that hugely vary in strength due to injuries and AFL selection.

On the other hand, we are happy to play them when they're weak and (I'm guilty here) unhappy when they're strong. That's a no-win situation for the AFL teams.

There won't be a National Reserves competition in the foreseeable future and Adelaide and Port playing Amateurs would be a joke and no option. I doubt it would be viable playing in the VFL, even if they were invited.

The reality is that the SANFL could exclude them, but probably (and realistically) fear reprisal from the all-powerful AFL.

I think Adelaide have pretty much kept to the spirit and letter of the agreement.  Port are Port and push the boundaries, but that's just my opinion.

The reality is that what we have is what we have, so we need to make the best of it for the time being, bearing in mind the AFL clubs would dump the SANFL in a moment if there was an alternative.

Genuine Magpies supporters are in a difficult position - supporting their club, as we would all do, but knowing it's not the same team they've followed for a lifetime.

I would make some changes, as follows:

Port should pay a $400K fee for participating, the same as Adelaide.

No marque player - it's hard enough playing against 17 listed players, without also playing against a B&F winner.

Close attention to the payments to top-up players.  eg: Port have delisted AFL players presumably happy to receive $100 to $400 for playing Reserves football.

I'm not sure about restricting listed player numbers to 14 or 15, not sure that would work.

Port's Academy side should go, there's no reason to have that side and be equal to the Adelaide conditions

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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Booney on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:32 am

You need a marquee player, you can't have an AFL listed player as captain, nor a rookie.

I think what should have happened :

- Port's SANFL zone was (should have been) split in two, giving half to Adelaide.
- Make Adelaide field an SANFL reserves team
- Limit AFL listed players at SANFL league level to 13-14
- Limit top up players from that zone to Under 23, not ever AFL or SANFL listed
- One marquee player ( must be the captain - work the pay out however you like )
- Make Adelaide find a home, perhaps Thebarton and play home games there. The SANFL gets the revenue.
- Let Port play at Alberton and the SANFL gets the revenue
- Port pay the same fee as Adelaide

All in all we are all pissing in the wind here, none of this will happen, the two sides aren't going anywhere soon and it's naive to think they will be.

Better to work on a happy (if possible) medium.
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by mickyj on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:26 pm

Lee wrote:My view is that the problems with the AFL teams in the competition are as follows:

The damage to the integrity of the competition by having teams that have different rules of player eligibility.

The damage to the integrity of the competition by having teams that hugely vary in strength due to injuries and AFL selection.

On the other hand, we are happy to play them when they're weak and (I'm guilty here) unhappy when they're strong. That's a no-win situation for the AFL teams.

There won't be a National Reserves competition in the foreseeable future and Adelaide and Port playing Amateurs would be a joke and no option. I doubt it would be viable playing in the VFL, even if they were invited.

The reality is that the SANFL could exclude them, but probably (and realistically) fear reprisal from the all-powerful AFL.

I think Adelaide have pretty much kept to the spirit and letter of the agreement.  Port are Port and push the boundaries, but that's just my opinion.

The reality is that what we have is what we have, so we need to make the best of it for the time being, bearing in mind the AFL clubs would dump the SANFL in a moment if there was an alternative.

Genuine Magpies supporters are in a difficult position - supporting their club, as we would all do, but knowing it's not the same team they've followed for a lifetime.

I would make some changes, as follows:

Port should pay a $400K fee for participating, the same as Adelaide.

No marque player - it's hard enough playing against 17 listed players, without also playing against a B&F winner.

Close attention to the payments to top-up players.  eg: Port have delisted AFL players presumably happy to receive $100 to $400 for playing Reserves football.

I'm not sure about restricting listed player numbers to 14 or 15, not sure that would work.

Port's Academy side should go, there's no reason to have that side and be equal to the Adelaide conditions

Interestingly trying to hide from the Sun Sunday . We moved up in front of these ladies who would have been mum daughter etc . And we could all tell who they wanted delisted next year .
And they started saying the centrals crowd were no AFL in the SANFL and one of them said no its North.
Me being me turned around and said no everyone wants you out .
The response I got startled me "WE dont want to be in the SANFL " .Seems port fans dont want to be in the SANFL. And its the SANFL and AFL forcing them to be in it .
We did have a great chat and I had to tell them theres no West Torrens zone any more and our zone is the port zone . That was a shock for some reason .
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by bayman on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:30 pm

Booney wrote:
bayman wrote:now the Power reserves are out of this years finals race, i urge every person who like me is against the AFL franchises in ''our'' competition, to go to the footy for the next two weeks in a show that without them more people will turn up, they wont have the excuse of Norwood, Sturt, Port or Glenelg who are the big ''natural crowd pullers'' playing in these two weeks.........................it doesn't matter who you barrack for, just go & send them a message that without the franchises the competition will flourish

So you protest the minor round games by not attending, to send a message to the powers that be, then you urge people to attend the GF to demonstrate to the powers that be your commitment to the league?

Interesting spin on things.



sorry Mr Booney, unless i have misread your comments or you are the almighty spirit him/herself, how do you know how many games i have attended this year? I've attended about the same number that i have every year, that being every Glenelg game & most neutral games when Glenelg are playing on another day of any particular weekend, in fact for starters i ran into Lee at Alberton for the Port v West match a few weeks ago, i think he was glad he bumped into me that day after the discussion we had, the only neutral games i could have gone to but didn't were Friday night games when i've had to work late or watching my son play footy on a Sunday, surely not even you could begrudge me that ?
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Ben W on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:45 pm

I am looking forward to attending the Grand Final and hopefully this week as well, I am hoping for West Adelaide to win it and I want to go for my Granddad if they make it. Most years I have attended the Grand Final and watched various sides play, clearly I would much rather be there to watch my own club, yet the fact is that the SANFL Grand Final is still a great experience and everyone should make it a priority even when their own side is not playing, the whole day is great fun and a great family event.
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by IAmTheWarrior on Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:56 pm

What you guys seem to forget is what the players actually want and while in the old days playing in the sanfl was as good as it got, these days boys grow up dreaming of an afl career. Surely the health of the league (and the game in general) is improved by young men seeing it as a real pathway into (or back into) the afl. Having the crows & port reserves active in the sanfl promotes it up the order of feeder leagues and makes it a desirable destination for players that are almost good enough for the afl. This gives you old blokes a better spectacle and makes your clubs attractive to potential recruits.
I'm not saying the current model is ideal but I think you guys are a bit deluded if you think that the league will be better off without the afl 2's. poor crowds have nothing to do with having the afl 2s and everything to do with the afl 1's and people having limited funds/time and rationing their entertainment options.
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by bayman on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:27 pm

IAmTheWarrior wrote:
I'm not saying the current model is ideal but I think you guys are a bit deluded if you think that the league will be better off without the afl 2's. poor crowds have nothing to do with having the afl 2s and everything to do with the afl 1's and people having limited funds/time and rationing their entertainment options.


haven't you read spelly's crowds stats over the last 20 years or whatever it is ?

most of us want to see & have a fair competition & it is NOT FAIR that two participating teams have different salary caps to the others, the was a sign put up at the end of last weeks first semi final behind the northern goals which simply stated ''no afl in the sanfl''

now i've read ideas to make the two teams ''more equal'' but having these teams too dominant or not dominant enough are equally wrong, when these two are close to full strength they are close to unbeatable, in the recent Glenelg v Adelaide match i witnessed my side give their all & were totally outclassed in what looked like a mens v boys match & as predicted by me in the lead up to that match the J-POD would kick 10 or 11 & why did i say this because i knew we'd be outclassed by the bigger bodies of professional footballers

this post was started simply to ask for those like me to turn up (surely getting a big crowd is a good thing ?) & make a point & have a day out

i believe there will be (at least) one change next year & this will help in the players preparation & that being the two franchises will not be playing Friday night matches against the other 8 traditional clubs, it has been acknowledged by the sanfl that it is too much of an advantage when one team has players at uni or working jobs which includes manual labor

i wonder if the then vfl clubs weren't going broke in the 1980's what would have happened ?
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by IAmTheWarrior on Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:28 am

There is no time machine Bayman- what happened I the 80s happened and you can't change it. Comparing crowds over the last 20 years is interesting but doesn't prove anything other than less people are going. Sure a lot of that is due to the afl but not so much their reserves as the fact that people don't have unlimited funds and so they make choices about where their entertainment $$ go. My point is just that you're never going back to the halcyon days of the sanfl even if the crows and port leave, and if you do get rid of them then I'd be prepared to bet that the quality of the sanfl dropped even further.

Btw, my mum goes to the footy every week as you know and we were talking about this the other day. She's never been concerned about port or the crows being in the sanfl but her comment about the crows vs eagles game the other day was that it was one of the best games of footy she's watched for the speed and skills on display.
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Big Phil on Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:59 am

IAmTheWarrior wrote:poor crowds have nothing to do with having the afl 2s and everything to do with the afl 1's and people having limited funds/time and rationing their entertainment options.
Not true, at all, I'm afraid, IAmTheWarrior...

I know PLENTY of people, who used to regularly attend SANFL games, now do not have as much care for the competition with the AFL reserves sides in AND only go to selective games, not involving the AFL reserves, with some even not attending at all, anymore...

Definately has SOME affect on the crwod numbers, for sure...
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by RODH2 on Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:14 am

I agree with Big Phil on this, and so do a lot of my friends. Sad
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by IAmTheWarrior on Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:52 am

Ok fellas- happy to accept that the opinions of your friends who don't go to the games any more are more valid than those of my friends who don't go to the games any more and look forward to the day when the sanfl boots out the afl teams and all of a sudden thousands more people each week start going again because that's the only thing that's been stopping them from going. Razz
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by RODH2 on Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:06 am

I might read Lee's post again, and bayman and Booney, interesting and timely debate, needs to be had IMHO!
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Booney on Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:28 pm

IAmTheWarrior wrote:Ok fellas- happy to accept that the opinions of your friends who don't go to the games any more are more valid than those of my friends who don't go to the games any more and look forward to the day when the sanfl boots out the afl teams and all of a sudden thousands more people each week start going again because that's the only thing that's been stopping them from going. Razz

Team 1 - "People aren't going because of the AFL teams"

Team 2 - "There's actually lots of reasons people aren't going to the SANFL anymore, the AFL teams are one of them"

1 - "No, it's only the AFL teams. Can't you see that?"

2 - "Actually,it's lots of things and perhaps not everyone lives and breathes the SANFL like you do?"

1 - "Bullshit. Can't be true"

2 - *Sigh*
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Re: time to prove a point re AFL teams

Post by Scrunch on Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:28 pm

[quote=IAmTheWarrior]What you guys seem to forget is what the players actually want and while in the old days playing in the sanfl was as good as it got, these days boys grow up dreaming of an afl career. Surely the health of the league (and the game in general) is improved by young men seeing it as a real pathway into (or back into) the afl. Having the crows & port reserves active in the sanfl promotes it up the order of feeder leagues and makes it a desirable destination for players that are almost good enough for the afl. This gives you old blokes a better spectacle and makes your clubs attractive to potential recruits.
I'm not saying the current model is ideal but I think you guys are a bit deluded if you think that the league will be better off without the afl 2's. poor crowds have nothing to do with having the afl 2s and everything to do with the afl 1's and people having limited funds/time and rationing their entertainment options. [/quote]

What the players want, whilst important, should be well down the list of priorities. Keep the horse before the cart.
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