AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Paul on Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:40 am

Several posters on another forum say far worse things than arseholes, just wonder if Booney is so precious enough to snap at them for saying nasty names Rolling Eyes

As for being called the Magpies in this comp, aren't they one club? So 2 names and 2 songs makes sense then Rolling Eyes
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Ben W on Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:09 pm

Personally I cant get past the fact that it is possible for the Crows to field a single player in their team that earns more than our whole clubs salary cap. I do not see the relevance of the Salary cap if two of the teams in the competition are not bound by it.

Sadly to say the horse has well and truly bolted. My anger is largely directed at the SANFL clubs that refused to allow their members to have a say in the decision making process to admit the AFL clubs into the SANFL who I feel are ultimatley those people that are totally responsible for the situation we now find ourselves in.

The only way to resolve the situation is for there to be an AFL Reserves competition and that will not happen any time soon.

The only other solution I can come up with is to suggest that because of the uneven rules re the Salary Cap, Trianing Facilities and so forth is that the AFL teams don't get to participate in the SANFL finals series. If one or both of them are in the finals they can simply play friendlies against one another until one or both are out. Outside of that I cannot see another solution.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Flag No.10 on Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:10 pm

Booney wrote:So you think, right at this moment, the SANFL is watching this site and others to garner the public's view of the current situation and are oblivious to the negativity currently surrounding the situation?

No, I said SANFL clubs. And yes I believe they do look at football forums. And no they couldn't be oblivious to the negativity, but more discussion of it adds to the critical mass of feeling around the issue.

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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Booney on Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:23 pm

Paul wrote:Several posters on another forum say far worse things than arseholes, just wonder if Booney is so precious enough to snap at them for saying nasty names Rolling Eyes

As for being called the Magpies in this comp, aren't they one club? So 2 names and 2 songs makes sense then Rolling Eyes

Precious? Laughing

**** off.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by RODH2 on Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:46 pm

Booney, do you think it is a level playing field as is? Do you think it needs to be....?
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Scrunch on Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:53 pm

Ben W wrote:My anger is largely directed at the SANFL clubs that refused to allow their members to have a say in the decision making process to admit the AFL clubs into the SANFL who I feel are ultimatley those people that are totally responsible for the situation we now find ourselves in.

Or the clubs that canvassed their members, but then made a decision regardless of the feedback.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by UncleHuey on Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:05 pm

If you think the situation is bad now, wait a couple of years when Adelaide plays Port in the SANFL grand final.

Anyone with any knowledge of the WAFL could see what would happen once the AFL reserves played in the State league. They tried it and the WAFL averages around 1,500 spectators a game and all clubs (apart from the AFL clubs) are struggling.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:23 pm

Scrunch wrote:
Ben W wrote:My anger is largely directed at the SANFL clubs that refused to allow their members to have a say in the decision making process to admit the AFL clubs into the SANFL who I feel are ultimatley those people that are totally responsible for the situation we now find ourselves in.

Or the clubs that canvassed their members, but then made a decision regardless of the feedback.

Yes, that is my main beef also.

in either of those scenarios, most clubs essentially didn't consider the member or supporter feeling as an important factor in their decision. I would go so far as to say that perhaps a majority of sanfl supporters/members would not have been in favour of the afl clubs' entry.

Whether the sanfl watches or heeds this forum, I don't really care and not relevant to me. The desire / need to debate what is in my opinion an unjust action that has alienated a significant number of core sanfl supporters is still important. It is certainly important that management people in "Clubland" who do watch forums understand this.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by bayman on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:52 pm

we at the Glenelg ''why we are voting yes seminar'', when asked a question were told (infact the answer was directed at me by Nick Ciggwidden) & he stated ''would you knock back $100,000.00 a year sponsorship for 15 years'' & now i find out it is half that, so basically every club is in this position for in round terms $1,000.00 per week, i'm convinced the clubs were told what was happening regardless of any member backlash
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by bayman on Wed Jul 29, 2015 8:59 pm

Booney wrote:
Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote:I cannot warm to a competition where the rules are the same for everybody.

A Double Blue win over Port was always most highly regarded the best scalp given their success over the years. However, I now find myself largely ambivalent to it.

These 2 afl sides have diluted the interest and integrity in the sanfl rather than the converse argument being that they have provoked greater interest. The attendance statistics support the diminishing interest theory.

I still maintain it was an ill-conceived gamble introducing afl reserves teams. And I am with Bayman, I can't see why Port still preserve this Magpie connection.

You don't need to. It doesn't involve you. Does it?

well it does concern all of us, it is OUR competition as well, & while your in denial (not a river in Egypt) the Magpies are dead & buried as we all knew them pre 2014 & have now they have evolved into the Power in the AFL, & as a token gesture wear the jumper to appease old time Port supporters
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by mark beswick on Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:41 pm

Technically, the magpies started in 2011 when they forfeited their delegate to the commission and became the "One Club". They were then slowly re-acquiring linked afl players back to the magpies who were let out by the mini draft.

My records have PAFC 1870-2010
Port Power 1997-
PAMFC 2011-
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by RODH2 on Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:44 pm

So the "one club" has 2 ... err...permutations, then?
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by mark beswick on Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:04 pm

Yep!
I went to the Chris Davies some years back and said should records be counted when port and crows entered as reserves sides. He said no advising it was when they became that one club. I looked at the sturt annual report for 1910, and the then president wrote in his year review about the new port club.

The PAFC 1870-2010 had the same continuous business number while the Power had a new number as a new entity. Someone once on this site had posted these details years ago - Wish I could find out who it was... Would be nice to quote the exact details.

Remember that when they became one-club, the pokie venue Prince of wales became owned by the "One Club" rather than the magpies.

But many will disagree with me...
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Chambo Off To Work We Go on Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:20 am

bayman wrote:we at the Glenelg ''why we are voting yes seminar'', when asked a question  were told (infact the answer was directed at me by Nick Ciggwidden) & he stated ''would you knock back $100,000.00 a year sponsorship for 15 years'' & now i find out it is half that, so basically every club is in this position for in round terms $1,000.00 per week, i'm convinced the clubs were told what was happening regardless of any member backlash

If that was his justification or belief why it needed to happen, then that is a very narrow view of the whole issue.
If it was only about money, then that is sad. It seems that the club delegates (Presidents) were singly entrusted with the decision and their duty was to look beyond just their club. Few did.

What about the 140 years of football integrity? Yes you could argue that aligning the power/crows players to the 9 clubs was not equitable, but I still think it was much more equitable than what we have now. And there was a (relatively) fair system of distributing those afl listed players.

I am not convinced the financial equation was as simple as Mr Chigwidden's argument.
What about what is now lost in club distributions from the afl sides?

Hindsight is a wonderful thing as they say, but now that the dust has settled on this, to me it appears that the sanfl clubs were held to ransom by the afl influence of what they wanted to happen. And all because they didn't have the vision to do what should have happened and set up a proper afl reserves competition. And they almost have one with the NEAFL and VFL, if you put them together.

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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Booney on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:44 am

mark beswick wrote:Yep!
I went to the Chris Davies some years back and said should records be counted when port and crows entered as reserves sides. He said no advising it was when they became that one club.   I looked at the sturt annual report for 1910, and the then president wrote in his year review about the new port club.

The PAFC 1870-2010 had the same continuous business number while the Power had a new number as a new entity.  Someone once on this site had posted these details years ago - Wish I could find out who it was...  Would be nice to quote the exact details.

Remember that when they became one-club, the pokie venue Prince of wales became owned by the "One Club" rather than the magpies.

But many will disagree with me...

So a business number dictates what a club is, who it represents and who follows and supports it?

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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by kingrooster on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:47 am

Chambo Off To Work We Go wrote: It seems that the club delegates (Presidents) were singly entrusted with the decision and their duty was to look beyond just their club. Few did.

In a typical manner of elected officials, the club delegates, despite being entrusted to make a decision on their own, failed to seek or respect the opinions of those members who elected them to the said position.

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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by RODH2 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:49 am

Booney wrote:
mark beswick wrote:Yep!
I went to the Chris Davies some years back and said should records be counted when port and crows entered as reserves sides. He said no advising it was when they became that one club.   I looked at the sturt annual report for 1910, and the then president wrote in his year review about the new port club.

The PAFC 1870-2010 had the same continuous business number while the Power had a new number as a new entity.  Someone once on this site had posted these details years ago - Wish I could find out who it was...  Would be nice to quote the exact details.

Remember that when they became one-club, the pokie venue Prince of wales became owned by the "One Club" rather than the magpies.

But many will disagree with me...

So a business number dictates what a club is, who it represents and who follows and supports it?

Or two business numbers, as the case may be...
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Booney on Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:57 am

What if the "club" isn't owned by the club anymore? I guess that means it isn't the club it claims to be. Hmm?
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by RODH2 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:50 pm

Yeah, Na.... I don't know who they're supposed to be!
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Booney on Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:12 pm

Not willing to answer the question(s)?
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by RODH2 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:19 pm

What "club" would that be then... 3 choices, apparently ?
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by Booney on Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:22 pm

It matters none. If a club doesn't own the club anymore, is it the club it used to be?

Keep in mind it seems business numbers are reflective of a club and what it stands for, who it is, its culture, if you will.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by RODH2 on Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:28 pm

No.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by mark beswick on Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:42 pm

If you are referring to the WAFC, the club is still owned by WAFC. We lease upstairs as a source of income and sold a %of trusts which pay a dividend to investors. The club can also invest in its own trust deriving a dividend as well as re-purchasing sold trusts from investors in the future. This is a simplistic explanation, others on the board could probably explain it better.

All other SANFL clubs own themselves as well albeit like us, with debts levels that they service and will pay down with future dividends.
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Re: AFL teams in the SANFL - Revisited

Post by bayman on Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:32 pm

i spoke to a Port friend who is a bit higher up on the Port scale than our Mr Booney & i was informed that Port do not pay the $50,000.00 per year to each club, however they have no claim on the footy park assets or indeed the sanfl end of year distributions, i believe what this person said as he doesn't tell fibs, i can now see both sides of the argument but think they should be paying 'something' for the privilege of playing in the competition, i'm sure if i lobbed at a motel i'd have to pay 'something' for the use of one of the rooms etc
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